The tutorial section for Oblivion was a pain and I ended up making a save at the end of it to start new Chars.

I think one is still needed for those new to the series, but it should be much smaller or even better yet, make it optional.

I still prefer the Morrowind style of "There you go, you're on your own now" and just get thrown into the world with nothing.

More than likely, yes.

I imagine there probably will be one. I don't mind the tutorial dungeon really, it gives you a quick lowdown of any game mechanic changes. And as you said, a well placed save after the first run through and you never need to do it again.

There was another thread about this.

Many people want a short and/or skippable "tutorial" level. Oblivion's prologue was fun at first, but after several playthroughs it became boring.

I think Bethesda should take a leaf out of CD Projekt's book and integrate the tutorial into the game, with the ability to toggle it off for subsequent playthroughs.

How was the tutorial in Oblivion a pain? It was fun. Not only that you just solved your problem that "lessened" your pain. Even I did it. So why say it was a pain?

I would prefer they keep it short and snappy and then add a nearby dungeon or tavern that can serve as a tutorial.

I don't want them to waste any resources on tutorials.

I'm sure Bethesda's aware of the complaints about the length of the tutorial dungeon, and I really hope they'll choose to act on it by making the tutorial shorter or workaroundable.

If not, alternate start mods are a must - once again.

It's almost a certainty they'll have one. Most games have some sort of tutorial these days, so I can't see something as complex as TES getting away without one. They could make it optional though.

Too bad they are going to do it. New game, new tutorial, new people to the series, $$$. Besides the tutorial is usually the intro to the main story of the game. You guys are whining too much on a small tutorial. Hell we don't even know what new is coming to the game, we are probably going to need the tutorial anyway.

It didn't solve anything, it was a 'work around' that I'd rather not have to do. Have you played Morrowind? The part of stepping off the boat and going through the office was one of the most enjoyable aspects of Morrowind and why I created so many characters.

In Oblivion I ended up creating new characters and either painfully go through the whole tutorial again or just have my character appear in front of a sewer gate.

It was just plain nasty.

What I hated was that you couldn't name save files in OB, at least on the 360.

Yes I own Morrowind, but first play of that game stepping off that boat and not understanding exactly what to do was almost a dealbreaker for many gamers, including myself. Anyone not familiar to the RPG world of TES would not understand what's going on. Besides you would be screwed if you didn't have a manual to read. It took a good 1-2 hours to figure out whats going on. Daggerfall was more lengthy (hard and annoying) tutorial dungeon than Oblivion. Now the option to start off after the tutorial is good once the game knows you passed it. Taking one out all together isn't, because you will lose new players. Any lengthily and advanced game needs a tutorial.

If it's optional (or if it can be modded out) I don't really care.

Oblivion's tutorial dungeon was a nice way to get accustomed with the game mechanics the first run through. After that it was just boring and annoying to go through that thing over and over again. I just used a mod to skip the thing and never missed it.

Well, if you look at it that way then I wish we all need a tutorial, in a good way

tutorial is nice, as long as it's skip-able

I thought it was handled quite well in Oblivion. Many games would have just continued the cut-scene up until Uriel's death, but Oblivion allowed the player to follow the story, while learning the basics of the gameplay elements at the same time. It wasn't boring because there were questions running through your head regarding why are you in prison and more importantly, why is the Emperor releasing you.

Fallout 3 tutorial was incredible. If they make something like that I am happy, as long as it's skip-able.

If there must be a beginning dungeon, then I want A ) any tutorial messages able to be turned off, and B ) for the dungeon to be comparable to Privateer's Hold, just as notorious and unforgiving. ^_^

I redid the tutorial with every character, primarily for the RP, but also because it gave me a chance to experiment with different skills and see how they worked in Oblivion before finalizing my character. Sort of like test driving a car.

See that I dont understand.

I got told that when I bought MW as well and I really dont see it.

The guard on the boat tells you to leave and go talk to Sellus Gravius in the dock office. You have no where else to go except into the building. Another guard walks with you right up to him. And then Sellus walks you through the character creation process and gives you the first part of the MQ.

You cant get more linear than that. The only difference between that and OB is OB's starting dungeon is longer, more of a repetitive pain in the ass, and you have a compass to hand hold you through it.

I dont mean to be cheeky here but I always fot that if you couldnt understand what you were doing you either werent reading what you were told in game or you were a complete idiot.

I'm not talking about exactly that part when it comes to the MQ, but just things such as controls and such. I ended up restarting, because I was already accidentally commuting crimes. After that part your kind of just on your own. Now you got to understand I'm going buy memory and I'm pretty damn sure that there wasn't much insight when it came about controls. I'm talking about a tutorial of mechanics of the game, not about the MQ.

I loved Oblivion's starter dungeon. I've done it dozens of times... And never got tired of it.

There better be a starter dungeon as good as Oblivion's was.

Well then in that case saying you didnt know what you were doing is a bit of a misnomer then. You did know what you were doing.

And I found the manual was fairly explanatory. Most of what went on was mostly common sense...

I still dont agree that it was as "hard" as people made/make out. It wasnt easier or clear it could have been better but neither were you left going "i dont know how to play this game!" like some people insinuate. It required a bit of thought or investigation and ud be fine.