Okay, so... We all know about the secret NPC chests throughout the map, and power leveling with muffle and all that, do you think it spoils the fun if you get to level 40 withing a few hours? Work up the money to buy proudspire manor in one sitting? What are your opinions on this? Thanks.

It can ruin a character for sure, but I've done it just to see what it's like.

It's up to the individual, I guess. It'd ruin a playthrough for me, but it might not for you.

It's not the knowledge that changes the game, it's your decision on how to use it - or not use it, as many of us decide.

Yes it ruins it if you do it at a low level. At level 30 I spammed Muffle to get a 100 Illusion for the Invisibility. Didn't ruin the game at all. I dare say it made it more fun!

Those things would ruin the game for me. But like Solitudian says, it's up to everybody else to decide if those things ruin the game for them.

I don't do it, or use the console for similar procedures, but it's up to each person. Skyrim is single player , so it doesn't affect anyone else.

If those types of activities do ruin gameplay for someone, it's self inflicted

I always feel bad and start a new character whenever I power level anything so yeah it ruins gameplay to a certain degree for me.

Looting invisible chests is clearly not an intended feature of the game. If you choose to exploit that, then the burden of corruption lies solely on your shoulders.

Spamming Muffle to get 100 Illusion is nothing more than grinding. A completely different thing. You are still leveling as you do it. A specialized character, that only uses Illusion would still be doing just that.

If done just for the sake of getting a powerful character, then, yeah any form of powergaming or meta gaming would ruin it for me. But if done with some specific purpose in mind, then it can add to the fun. Example. I once took a character right out of the tutorial and powergamed his restoration to 70 in a couple of hours. Took the necromage perk and became a vampire. Then I started to actaully play the character. He was about level 20 or so with no skills above starting value other than pickpocket and restoration, so he was getting stomped everywhere he went. It ended up being a really fun character to play because he started out very weak but eventually became very powerful because of the necromage bonuses, so there was a real sense of progression. It took a long time for him to become powerful and he had a very fun journey along the way.

It would ruin it for me. Unless I'm messing around on that particular character...

And if you were to obtain the Atronach stone and stand in the wind at High Hrothgar repeatedly casting your healing spell and letting the 50% absorption constantly replentish your magicka so you can stand there indefinately and heal yourself, where would that fall on the continuim of exploiting a feature in a way that was unintended vs. merely practicing your restoration magic for a specialized restoration build?

Personally, powerleveling a skill or two to 100 makes it a better start (getting to start at level 10 or so w/100 Smithing, for example), but past that ruins it.

That's still grinding. I see nothing wrong with that.

EDIT :

Grinding a skill, no matter how creative one gets, is completely different that cheating the game and looting a caravan's chest.

Grinding and training are the same, in my eyes. It's part of how TES has always been. Even NPCs train in the game. More so in Oblivion than Skyrim, but you see the Restoration click at the college training in her quarters.

The mages in Oblivion trained all the time.

If you want to get good at throwing a rock at a bucket.. you need to throw a lot of rocks. Batting practice consists of a lot of balls and thousands of swings during a single afternoon.

Yeah, I would agree with that. They even had a training room in the Oblivion battlehorn castle where you could spar with a trainer and get real XP in your weapon skill and in block while sparring, with no risk to life or limb. I think a little training (i.e. grinding) is fun on occassion but do too much of it and it is just a grind. How much is too much may vary with the player or character.

Well, for me the journey beats the destination, so i get no joy from playing a "finished" character from the beginning.

I loved that Castle in Oblivion. Great addition for any character.

My thoughts on too much is...well, look at it like this...

If you specialize a character, you essentially have them capped at a given level. Now, how much of the games content do you think warrants getting to that cap? I often find my characters have hit their cap and there's well over 75% of the game left for them to explore. All being done with a fully skilled, perked and leveled character. I continue to enjoy playing with them.

People often comment negatively about grinding and how it broke their game and made them overpowered. That's a load of skeever poo. Grinding Smithing didn't do it. The fact that you continued to improve the weapon beyond Legendary, to the point it does 1K damage is what did it.

Oh boy here's another silly post.

Of course if you are going to exploit and "game" the game, its going to be boring and ruin the experience. Hint.... so will entering no clipping mode, so will entering god mode....

Next thing we will be seeing are people complaining because they used the console (or a mod if it exists), to complete all quests, and wonder why it they finished the game in 33 seconds.

Seriously people, I believe if you are going to make your char OP, in ANY way, you have no right to complain how easy the game is.

Yeah... Legendary isn't even that terribly powerful. The most you can get for one thing is about... 100 damage with a Daedric Sword, or 240 armor with a Daedric Armor. No enchantments. (And this is with full perks in the appropriate skill; base would be 50 and 120, respectively).

Your post was silly. The thread isn't about complaining.

Agreed. I find that it still takes a bit more to take on some enemies at higher difficulties, especially Master. I don't even entertain the thought of Legendary difficulty.

Ok my mistake.

Claiming to be doing something "not an intended feature of the game" then saying the obvious, " it ruins the game" and "it spoils the fun" is clearly not complaining.

Are you being facetious and suggesting that I was complaining?

That may be your spin on the topic, but I don't see anyone making a complaint post. Well... maybe one.

Nope I am still standing behind my first comment in this thread, and used his own words to better prove the point.

A lot of people (including myself) are sick of people using exploits and gaming the game to achieve some Uber invincible status, then come on the forums to complain about how boring it is, and how it ruins the game.

But you didn't use his own words. You took two separate lines of text, from two separate posts, and placed them in conjunction to make it sound like he was complaining.

Your words...

His words...

Nowhere in the OP does the phrase "not an intended feature of the game" appear. I don't see the OPs concerns being anything associated with complaining. He just inquired what the thoughts of others were on the topic.

Now, had he came on and stated what you did the that could be considered a complaint. I don't get that form the discussion.

EDIT :

I don't even think this discussion is about being overpowered. I see it as more of maxing out a character and continuing to play the game.

Yes sorry I was using your words to describe what he was stating...

AGAIN I will be more clear

If someone like the OP state that they exploit a feature in game,(which YOU agreed he was doing, and I used your words to describe his actions), which makes them OP, but asks if it spoils the fun, (and using title of this topic ruins gameplay), then its silly since we have seen these posts every other day, and most people on here agree that if you OP your char, you are solely responsible for how boring the game will get.

YES he did imply it ruined the gameplay and spoiled the fun, even if he just used it as a question.

It would be the same as asking

"Do you think refusing entry to a black person into my place of business, based solely on the colour of their skin, is racist?" Would be implying that I have done this and just fishing for justification from someone.

Honestly, does it your ruin game, TC? Ultimately that question is pertained to you and only you as our opinions are just in fact opinions.