Exactly. They came up with this great idea for leveling skills that took away the random xp everyone else used, based on the obvious and intuitive idea that you improve the skills you use, and then they go right back to forcing you to choose which attributes to upgrade. Obviously you had multipliers, but it should have been automatic.

Agreed, then again would defeat the purpose of including them :biggrin:

I personly am tired of attributes and stats. RPGs have driven this D&D staple into the ground. Time for a reboot.

I agree.

I love D&D, but Pen and Paper stats should STAY on Pen and Paper. I don't think the Elder Scrolls community is quite ready for ditching skills, but I would be all for removing attributes. All of these useless numbers kill the immersion. Don't TELL me that my character has 100 strength, SHOW me, by allowing me to use that incredible strength to do incredible things. Does my character have terrible agility? Don't tell me, make him stumble all the time.

Actions speak louder than words.

But do you see where this logic goes?

By this sort of definition, you could simply stick some stat numbers onto an FPS and call it an RPG.

I know RPG is a subjective term, and it means different things to everyone. But to me, an RPG is not about numbers or stats. I'ts about Role Play. Don't give me a thousand numbers to look at. SHOW me. If I wanted a billion numbers, I would go play D&D or Shadowrun ( and believe me, I do) , but if I want to be immersed in another world, as Beth likes to do, then don't take me out of this world to make me look at a bunch of numbers. In my opinion, the perfect RPG wouldn't have any stats at all. No numbers, no menus, nothing.

Not trying to flame, just joyfully straying off topic.

Worst mistake for an RPG, that I've ever seen. (and the chief reason the PC seems to hop like a cricket every where they go, and picks locks to doors they don't need to open).

I concede that it suits their vision well ~Its what they want the game to play like ~but IMO that's just a terrible way to make an RPG.

Wait by attributes you mean the things like Strength, Intelligence, Willpower, etc.

Are you absolutely sure tehy are gone?

If tehy are gone, oh well, hopefully they still have some alternative system that is just as good.

If not then this svcks.

Honestly, yes I want attributes back because I loved leveling up my character to 100 in all of them. But on the contrary, I suspect Bethesda will do a great job though with whatever route they take.

The Public isn't absolutely sure of anything. (I'd be surprised if there is no PC stat list; but I'd not be shocked to find that they mean less that they did before).

*** I'd say don't assume things are gone for them not being mentioned. The only things they will mention are things that are reasonably not expected to change anymore.

I think that would be pretty hard to implement and I also disagree with you. Having soe numbers and menus is good, too many svcks, but breaking immersion, it is a video game, adn I want to be immersed as well, but unfortunately that idea does not appeal to me at all.

"Role Play" is an even more subjective a term than "RPG". What you describe as ideal, would not even loosely qualify as an RPG IMO.

** Just saying, you know?

Not just off topic, but an instant thread de-railer to boot :chaos:
(I'll PM my answer.)

I respect your opinion. Out of interest, what does RPG mean to you?

I hope not.