:rofl:

...........I think Im going to petition the Site admin to....alter the rofl emote.....it is really suggestive............

Exceptional work. Thank you for explaining the CS. That makes modders the equivalent to developers, like how blogging is considered journalism.

Once again....




You know, kind of like the illustrated equivalent of all the "TES V suggestion" threads that have apparently been floating around for years now. Yes, lots of the suggestions in those threads were stupid, or impractical, or didn't fit what they want. But that didn't stop them from maybe using the suggestions (or mods) as the starting point for other ideas.

Inspiration.

Not literal copying, not installing a mod straight, not hiring the mod makers as developers.

But sources of ideas.

My mistake. Obviously I am replying to a kid who just wants to pick up a fight.

I will part with this: there are many modders who WORK as graphic artists and coders, and they DO have professional credentials in the field.... matter of fact, one Oblivion modder actually got hired by Bethesda.

The only difference between a good modder and a developer is a salary. You don't have to go to school or earn a degree to develop games, like you do with sciences. In fact, companies primarily look for experience (*cough*modding*cough*) when hiring. There are plenty of modders who are as good at what they do as Bethesda is.

But really I dono what this argument is about

They already use ideas from modders, this isn't new.

And here it comes; "Yer a kid cuz you don't agree with me". Developing is a trade skill. A modder was hired, excellent. He showed potential for serving in the best interests of this franchise. What about the other several other hundred modders who surfed several websites and figured out how script a guy waving on someone else's engine? That definitely casts a shadow over the developers who dedicated time, money and experience into their trade and now get paid full time to do it. I own several guitars, that does not make me a musician.

No, son. I think you are a kid because you do not comprehend what I am saying to you. At least I hope you are a kid, because if you are a grown up, that'd be really pathetic.

What I am saying to you, is that a lot of people who mod games are actually professionals in the field of graphic arts and programming, who make mods for fun, and are as good as any Bethesda professional. Very simple point that does not seem to get across.

Way to be "grown up" and take a disagreement over the internet as a personal attack. Facebook generation in all it's glory.

I understand there is experience in the modding community and never argued that, so you either assumed or your reading comprehension is in question. What you are assuming is most modders share this experience, thus collectively putting them in the same light as developers. The majority of ripped off, simplistic, buggy and rushed crap uploaded to the Nexus would argue otherwise.

This. Yes, there's plenty of experience in the modding community, but to say that most of then can do a developer's job would kind of seem like an insult to the Dev. Hell, it's an insult to a journalist that a blogger can do his/her job easy, as Agressor has noted earlier.

I'd like to see the quality mods this poster has churned out that has them on the offensive.

Of course they should and are incorporated Oblivion/FO3/FNV/Morrowind mods in their games. It's a no brainer.

I really hope they take a hard look at Nehrim and see how great a game in a TES style game world with exp based leveling and no leveled zones can be.

Yeah :thumbsup:

That′s the point.

I don't see why it has to be either/or. I've seen some bloggers who do a better job than some journalists: there are some very talented bloggers out there even discounting the fact that there are more than a few not so good professional journalists working for the national rags. Likewise with modding: I think it'd be an unusual developer who said that as a professional, he was better than every amateur modder out there because he'd likely be wrong. Doesn't mean that every casual modder is on par with every developer, but there are some phenomenally talented people out there in the community who do it as a hobby.

After I played vanilla Oblivion for about 60 hours or so I started adding mods. My current game has over 200 mods added, mostly graphical and minor gameplay changes (landscape changes and town improvement mods, as well as aesthetic mods that change NPC behavior) and I can say without a doubt that many modders are very talented and worth imitating even by large game companies like Bethesda.

Like somebody else said they are already using some mod ideas in Skyrim, so it's late to complain about. And I fully support this because it will only help improve their games and help them see what kind of changes are popular and useful.

I think the difference is in the nature of what talent applies to. For the modder, talent's definition is solely making a great new part of the game, in the set and defined framework of the game that already exists (taking into consideration they often coordinate w/ other mods or other mod frameworks).
For the developer, talen't definition is also making a great new part of the game, along with sewing that part into the game at the same time that every other part of the game is shifting around, not-yet-absolute (some parts not-yet-existent), dealing with the game's framework as it's in total flux, and working always with the preconditions of 1) multiple parts they are responsible for, and 2) the inexorable time limits.

Either the developer's role is a more talented one because it encompasses more difficulties and criteria, or they're not comparable because they're two different tasks.

Can you point out where/when did I state that most modders share this experience?
Or what gave you the idea that I am assuming anything of that nature?
Again, the only thing I am saying, is that there are many modders who are as good as the game developers, using 3d programs, image manipulation programs, and scripting... that is all.

I can almost guarantee you have a facebook account. I don't

yup too true because without the community patches (which fix relatively minor things) the game would be seriously more glitchy

and to the haters : i think the op means draw ideas from mods i mean read the title!!!!

It's like that thing people say about getting ten-thousand monkeys typing on typewriters and eventually they'll collectively come up with a great novel. now i don't know if that would work with monkeys, but if we have 10,000 modders making mods, we're gonna get at least a few great ones.

Bethesda sure could take use of the idea that is Immersive Interiors or improve on the idea of Reneers Interiors Mod.

I disagree, most good mods you find you have to search through a ton of other crap or know specifically what your looking for.

Most mods are made for people with specific wants like armour and such.

Following a design document and taking direction from the project lead doesn't make the developer more talented. You could argue that it makes the job harder, but you (or I, in this case ) could argue that it actually makes the job easier - the developer is given criteria and told what to do, modders have to think of and plan everything themselves. A developer has an extensive support structure who can assist or do work for him if need be. If something doesn't work with the engine he can go to the coders and have them fix it, a modder has to work around it or has to abandon his mod completely. The modder also has a day job or an education, while a developer spends all his work time developing. And thats a solitary modder - once you get into complex team efforts (like Tamriel Rebuilt or Nehrim) you're multiplying everything with the difficulties of working with a team of people, teaching new members, organization, etc. etc. Saying that TR is inferior to Bethesda because we won't have a shiny office is an unfounded and unjustified insult towards modders and the thousands of hours we spend on our craft.


The thing about the monkeys is probability (luck). Modding is all skill. Yes, there are tons of mediocre and crappy mods out there, but those that are good aren't good by chance but rather by the hard work, dedication, and time their creators invest in them.

Most definitely. Something as simple as BTMod having to be created or the LOD textures being so low res shows that Bethesda didn't really care about the PC version of Oblivion. Simple things like these fixes had better be with Skyrim from release. I don't want to be reading child size font designed for consoles and TVs. Mods that really add new gameplay features that aren't exactly line with the spirit of the game, maybe not so much.

I'm baffled by how many of you guys don't seem to be understanding what's meant by the thread. The OP isn't talking about literally using mods, but taking ideas and inspiration from them. A lot of you also seem to immediately think of "fun" mods like lightsabers and things like that, which is also not the case. The example the Bethesda already gave is a perfect example of what taking mod ideas and implementing them in the vanilla game can do: arrows doing more damage but shooting slower.

well for the archery in skyrim they took inspiration from a mod someone made (i bet that person cant believe there good fortune)