So you think my character's live time in game is what? Maybe a year? Two years? If I play the same character for say 300 hours, how long would you think that character's game life would have been?

I very much think one person could run three guilds at the same time, just as I think Donald Trump has done pretty well running numerous organizations and charities all at the same time.

But really, it's no problem we don't see this the same way. We all have different ideas of what we want. I am just of the belief that having skill requirements as well as having to complete quests to be head of a guild would mean our character accomplished just that and would deserve to head whatever he/she put the time into accomplishing. In fact I think it would be awesome if it were included that when becoming a member of a second or third guild you would have to work out some issues between the guild and "build bridges of understanding" between the different guilds. Stick out the olive branch and have them work together to accomplish something huge in the game.

Some people and hopefully some characters would thrive with added diversity.

I didn't include an alternative option because I was curious what you guys think about the whole concept of becoming the master of a large guild as a whole.
No matter what kind of character you play, you're basically still an adventurer and having a management position is just an entirely different job.
It's like a field-engineer becoming CEO... how does that make sense?

Even if you have the choice, there are many guilds where they'll never be able to make the highest rank believable because they would basically have to turn it into a strategy/management type of game, so why bother including the option of obtaining that title at all?

Yea I'd like that, some kind of progression from being leader of several guilds. And since you ask, I don't know how long playtime is supposed to represent in years, but I can tell you it's not a full life, since your character starts out as an advlt and doesn't grow old. But as I said, this is not something I only see one solution to, and I agree adding skill requirements again will atleast fix it to a certain degree... we'll see.

I don't want to be blocked from achieving highest rank completely, but I would like it to be very difficult to obtain higher positions. Skill requirements, maybe someone to vouch for you (and you'd have to do more for them than just one quest), and other such things to prove your worth. Maybe have a rival in a faction where if you do x number of things wrong, they get top position instead of you?

Yes, agreed.

Atleast make it limited to ONE guild at guildmaster status, with each guild having a particular benefit.

No. If you can't rise to the top, why even bother with the guild to start with? You have to have an incentive to work for the guild, and unless you have the incentive of one day becoming the leader than there is no incentive for me.

Now, once you reach the top I think more should be done to recognize you and to make it fun to be on top. Morrowind didn't have that, Oblivion had a litle bit but still wasn't enough. I'm not sure right now how to fix it, but you should be able to do more as the leader of the guild.

If I can't at some point be the leader of the guild, there is no incentive for me to even work for them.

Let me add one thing, I would be all for limiting the amount of guilds you could be head of or limiting the amount of guilds you can join at once, makes for replayability. I should be able to be the leader of any guild I join though.

I like this idea. Also, along the lines of what you seem to be going for, I'm wondering if it might be good to limit the player to being the head of one guild (and maybe one or two steps down on any other guild). So there isn't a conflict of interests in being head of multiple guilds.

What I want is immersion... I always felt like the way they did guilds in the game was highly unrealistic of the way they should be done. I think guilds should behave like the main quests, in that they have their own really large events happening within the guilds that take place over many quests and in the period that you complete these quests you are making choices that effect and change the world and guild drastically with consequences, in addition to helping you advance... However, it shouldn't be just one linear plot line that you work your way to the top and then you're done.

It would be far more realistic and immersive if the tasks and intrigue built into sort of a web of intermingling opportunities to do tasks and take up quests, and that depending on your choices some opportunities would change, disappear, or alter your direction entirely depending on what you chose. This would radically alter gameplay, and make it much more immersive and realistic. Further, this is exactly what you would expect if you were really part of an organization, particularly considering most organizations don't just have a generic hierarchy, but specialization's, and I've never seen guilds in TES where you can specialize within the guild before rising to the top, and have quests based on that specialization.

Finally quests shouldn't just be there, but become available with time, as events unfold in the world. So maybe eventually a long way down the road you could become the leader, but it should feel like you worked your way up there, and you've been part of the guild for awhile, experienced a connection and change, and been part of numerous events in its history, also you shouldn't see such a thing coming to you, the guild experience should be natural and conflict and have consequence with your other experiences... This is not a programming difficulty, its merely a matter of lack of imagination, and a choice to simplify a system for the sake of time and effort...

Votes yes, there should be restrictions. These would be judgment calls by a GM, a game needs strict rules. But these wannabe starter guilds (they seem designed for the new player to have something to do) should have competition (houses and clubs would be something completely different) that is both more powerful in politics but also more secretive and a lot harder to join. If the starter guilds are eventually "ridiculed by the public" due to recent events or scandals or whatever, then I see no problem with leading all. But you should also be able to withdraw from that position, and leave it to someone with higher ambitions. The competitive guilds might have more competition going with the others, and might demand you quit, or might not even talk to you at all if you're a member.

Yeah I agree that quests shouldn't just be there all the time. Maybe hook it up as spinoffs and sides related to events that unfolds in the main quest. I could even want random filler quests that occur in the dead periods, that doesn't progress you in the guild. I mean, part of being in a guild is "doing work", not everyone can "become a leader".

Limiting access to the top rank and high skill requirements to attain them would make for a much better experience, so voted yes. I find the whole idea of becoming the leader of every major organization pretty silly, to be honest.

Let our characters say no to the offer of becoming the master, with it's own benefits.

I hate being a master of anything let alone them all. I really wish we had to specialize in a certain combat area of the game and couldn't work the rest or could only work those skills to a certain level. Usually in the fantasy world you are a master magician or a master warrior or thief or whatever and not all of them.

I think it would be cool if you had timed tasks you had to do as guild master and the time it took to do those tasks would effectively limit how many guilds you could run and or adventure at the same with. If you do not complete X number of your duties as a guild master each week it raises the chance that you get kicked out as guild master. But as guild master you would gain a steady income maybe access to companions and other perks.

Disagree with "fixing" the problem by not letting you become leader. That's taking the easy way out.

Fix the real problem: make becoming the leader make you a leader, not a PR lackey on posters while someone else runs the show.

Seriously, as I've mentioned before- which quests do you hang up on repeated playthroughs? Do you always do the main quest and stop doing guild/faction quests, or do you stop doing the main quest and make characters more focused on one or more factions? I know which way I go, and it tends to be tossing out the main quest.

So flesh those factions out already! More content, not less! We got enough *cough* "streamlining" over the course of Daggerfall -> Morrowind -> Oblivion, why ask for more of the "less" approach?

And to address what's pretty much become a cliche in these forums: Bite me- add in becoming a real master, with the option to turn it down instead of shoving "No more guild master positions" down everyone's throat, eh? Choices, options, etc. etc. ad nauseum ad infinitum we are teh playerz give us moar moar moar and all that jazz.

The ceiling shouldn't be lowered, it's low enough as it is and I always bang my head on it.

Dont lower the cap, just add in the content to make the top position worth it...

It doesn't make sense when certain guilds contradict themselves....

Fighters guild to Assassin's guild

Mage Guild to thieve's guild (In a certain quest you have to steal the arch mages staff) -and I must point out that if your the Arch mage during this quest you basically steal from yourself (:facepalm:)

Methredel - I need you to steal the Arch Mages staff!!!!!! (dramatic music!!!)

CoC - "Gotcha, I'll go 'steal' the Arch Mage's staff!" --leaves thieve's house-- "pffft svckers....."

But, what if you're a pure mage character. High level, and so pretty much the "strongest" mage in the whole country, wouldn't it be silly to be unable to become the arch mage? I agree, maybe alternatives should be provided. But to completely getting rid of it, is a mistake.

It was even more ridiculous in Oblivion, and this is coming from a guy who likes Oblivion as much as Morrowind, when becoming Archmage, because you were in the center of the empire, in the Arcane Universtiy, possibly the highest mage position in Tamriel, yet you have no duties or responsibilities and you could be a straight up fighter or thief, with no magic skill.

I do agree that something needs to change with guilds. They need to either make it so being guild master feels like being a guild master, or yeah, make it so you can only rise as high as second-in-command in the guild, and leave the administrative functions to the NPC guild master. Either one's pretty much fine with me.

I think that it should be obtainable, but also not obtainable, for instance, when you get to the last quest that will make or break you as the leader, at the end you should be confronted by the next highest ranking member, and they should give a choice, "Become the Leader of this Guild and take on more responsibilities, yet receive some sort of bonus" or "Put me in charge, yet have all privileges and such, without the responsibilities and without the bonus." :homestar:

thats what i recommend all the time
instead becomming the leader and get bored, because nothing really changes

we could get something like building up a mercenary grou/army by ourselves.

We could chose our own place were we plan our new fights and stuff
As the leader you wouldnt have other people doing your work you have to plan everything and also fight.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1153428-build-you-own-mercenary-army/

agreed

I like the option of becoming guild master, but I think in Skyrim, it should be a deal where you do have to do some paper pushing.

Like, assuming the Dark Brotherhood is in Skyrim, or their equivalent, when you become Listener (Or the Listener's equivalent,) you'll take on super high end jobs...I mean, like removing countessess, and killing Generals, the Archmage, stuff like that, super high end stuff, but you'll also have little niggling details. Like helping with recruitment.

You could, on the other hand, not take over as head of the guild, but appoint someone else, or shock of the century!!!!! Keep the old one who knew what the [censored] they were doing!

My issue isn't with being able to rise to the top of the guild, my issue is that once you actually reach the top there's nothing to do, at all.