Well, that's what I think, and I can't really help my thoughts. I was simply pointing out that you said you get your fun out of annoying me and other people, and then later on you denied that you were doing that exact thing.

I also can't help your immediate assumption of Skyrim starting in a jail cell, despite there being no evidence of such a thing yet. We've seen many different interpetations of the term 'prisoner', and how the player character in each of the games applies as a 'prisoner' at the starting point - whether it's being locked away in a dungeon and left there to rot, or getting trapped in an abandoned place like Privateer Hold.

if you want to look back at the grammar Qwased didn't say he does these things to annoy you, but finds it funny that they do annoy you.

As for you being in terms of the other "forumites", you are in the minority, not the majority. Most people realize that you start out as a prisoner and don't care as long as the beginning is good and makes sense. Your examples do not make sense and I don't want to insult you but they are terrible narratives. A lottery winner that decides to leave his money behind when the emperor walks into his room to take a secret passage that has no worldly reason to be in a hotel, and then risk his life when he is incredibly rich and set for life for no reason when he wasn't even asked to follow along into the secret passage. That makes no sense....whatsoever. Prisoner does not mean your in jail, since once again I'll explain that jail is where your held before trial and prison is where you server you sentence. Prisoners can be in labor camps, slave camps, on a caravan, in the wilderness after being recently captured by bandits. Prisoner doesn't equal prison, as you have seen in Morrowind.

Naw, then that would be rude. I am just simply stating many, many thing, and being rude is not one of them. Saying "ya" is just part of my grammer in the internet.


Many interpretations of the term 'prisoner' and thats how I see it and not in a "prison cell" sense.


But usually, all I see that many people are confuse with prisoner with jail in many, many past thread in this subforum and I keep seeing ya defend that as well, as we are still talking about it right now.

And again, if I have to narrate the lottery intro, this this. Once upon a time, the PC wander around in Imperial City. He s/he happen to find a lottery (on the ground) near by hotel that promote the lottery of a free room. Ya went in and turn in the lottery and bingo, ya win a room. That night, the PC woke up from a sleep with a bunch of noise outside. Its Picard and his whimpy guards. They tell ya to not follow them and open the secret door on the side of ya winning room. Ya follow anyway (or just sleep). As for why this room have the secret door? The PC is in Picard's Love Nest/personal room. It jsut happen ya got that room, like how the PC in the Prison is "lucky" to have the jail he is in.

Of course Prisoner does not mean jail but than again, I keep seeing people thinking that being a prisoner mean being in jail. That is what I saw all the time in these kind of threads. And again, I would not consider Morrowind's intro as a "prisoner" intro anyways, thank to the logic I came up with.

I think starting out as a prisoner is a good idea. Because the thought of you starting out as a beraggled prisoner is more appealing becuase your going from a low place to basically saving the world from absolute annihilation from a freaking giant dragon. I was kinda hoping for different beginning for each of the races. Kinda like in Dragon Age Origins. bliviongate:

Reading the posts from the past 2 pages is really confusing me what the argument is even about now....

Then apply that logic to the other instances of being a prisoner because in Morrowind you are most certainly a prisoner. I for one am going to imagine that I was captured by a nord faction because they thought I was a spy from the other faction. I'm a prisoner yet not in prison. If I am put in a prison, I won't think of my character as a criminal because he did nothing wrong just like you have no reason to believe that your character in Morrowind was a criminal even though it is abundantly clear that your a prisoner since it says you were a prisoner that was shipped from the imperial prison to Morrowind. But seeing as how you altered your characters story to your whim even though it was clearly a prisoner just proves my point that it doesn't matter that you were a prisoner when you can imagine your own reasoning for your character.

I cannot stress enough that I'm not saying that every TES beginning from now to the end of time has to start with you being a prisoner, I'm saying people shouldn't be angry about being a prisoner and saying that being a prisoner is generic or unoriginal even though because the character is a prisoner, they are always different stories that spawn from that prisoner and their surroundings. If TES VI starts out with you traveling out in the wilderness and you stumble into some event then fine but complaining about being a prisoner again is ridiculous seeing as how you can have a rich, deep intro that is unique even though your still a prisoner in each story (except Daggerfall)

But applying the logic for Morrowind is easy namely the fact that it is too vague and too short to consider the PC as a "prisoner", hence why I would not consider Morrowind's intro as "prisoner" intro but really, jsut a drop off the boat and gaining citizenship. This logic will not work like that of Oblivion's Prison Intro. And again, I do not like the "framed" solution just to have a "prison" intro.


And I cannot stress enough that if anything, the PC is a prisoner to the Main Quest. Its not about being generic or unoriginal, its about how the game should start, with dignity and less bull crapping my reason why I am in a Prison Cell, which would enhance the amount of RP background.

It's not vague...It is very clear when you start a new character to say your a prisoner, tells where they shipped you from and everything. After you get off the boat they call you prisoner. I don't even know where you got the "framed" solution from and I don't know why you keep putting "prison" in quotations. Oblivion has a prison intro. We are talking about the PRISONER intro. They are not the same. You can easily just say that you were a refugee from another province and you were arrested because you didn't have any papers and you were just being held there until they verified your identity.

I don't even recall they call one "prisoner" at all, but anyways, the Morrowind is too short to even force upon the player that is a "prisoner" or the fact that there no intecation that "share" any aspect of a jail cell or wearing a chain for that a matter. The "framed" solution base on why one is in jail, which I do not like. We are talking about the prisoner intro, but in a sense of what other people saw it as, being in jail. That is all I see from this thread.

Yes, nerd-rage. Like that of one Qawsed Asap in particular, who seems content to rant on in complete denial of the fact that Morrowind piles on the proof that your character's tale begins as a prisoner. Who claims having modded Oblivion, the story is something it isn't in the version made by the developers. Who somehow claims being in a locked cell at the beginning of Arena doesn't somehow equal being a prisoner. This sort of denial amuses me to no end, and is naught but icing on an already-delicious cake.

Starting as a prisoner, or even in prison, doesn't bother me in the least because I can come up with countless reaasons for being there. Hell, even if I want to be the Shining Paladin I can come up with a backstory where I'm helping to ferret out the most evil criminal in the land by going undercover as a prisoner. That even nicely covers "Why is a prisoner in the cell that is never supposed to house a prisoner"- not being booked in normally, someone thought other "normal procedures" didn't apply as well. Some folks aren't this clever, and simply rant as if "you were framed" is the only way a non-criminal non-evil character could possibly end up in a cell. I pity these people their lack of creativity.

Then some go on to rant about how so many other beginnings would be "less restrictive," and pose strawman examples that don't cut it. "Wake up in an inn." Uh, whether that inn is the King's Tavern or a roach motel pigeonholes what social class your character is. Robbed by bandits and left- again, why would bandits rob a peasant who has nothing, and why would rich nobility not have an entourage of guards?

Either you've got the creativity to work with any opening the developers give you or you don't, it's that simple. And if you don't, it's not the developers' fault.

One thing I didn't like about Oblivion's prisoner intro, however, was that it forced you starting the main quest, and based on the fact that it gave you the amulet, you felt some sort of responsibility to deliver it. I hope you have more options like finding out about the main quest itself, then deciding whether you want to take on it or not

Cool, who cares what everyone else is thinking, you keep thinking it too and I'm trying to get it through to you that it doesn't mean jail. As for them calling the player in Morrowind a prisoner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_RiReXz8DQ. I don't see why the "framed" solution has to be a solution at all, there are a myriad of other explanations why an innocent person would be in jail. I think this is just a case of people being too lazy to take the 5 min to finish the intro dungeon which I actually enjoy because of the realism of the ruined tunnels.



Same goes for Morrowind, it gives you a letter and says it's an important letter you need to deliver. If you really don't want to do the main quest so badly just don't make it your active quest. It's not like you have to do the main quest.

Ya consider I "nerd-rage"? Right. And this is coming from a person who assume this is all "nerd-rage" but join in anyways just to say he love the prison intro and make fun of the whole thread. As I said before, this is just passing off time with my opinion of things and saying this is not tradition and all that goodie.

Anyways, There hardly any proof that the PC is the "prisoner" the Emperor seek. And again, I can say its really Jiub's destiny but the PC took that for him/her self. As for Modding, that is how I make the world that fit to my like. All that matter in term of future story is the Main Quest, which there hardly any mod that change it that much, not to mention the hero's origin anyways.

It does not bother ya but it bother me and a handful of people. In all aspect, if its universal love for the Prison intro, then there would have been no intro mod with such high rating and download rate of thing.

I would not really consider "developers' fault" but if I don't like it, I would mod it.


And that from Azura, the Daedra Prince that love manipulate anyone as a toy. Its just so happen that the Daedra Prince assume one is a "prisoner" in a prisoner ship, or the fact that the Daedra Prince gave the same dream to everyone that was on board and on board previous. Azura does not hold alot of water in all of this.


Who say that letter was for ya? It could be for Jiub but mistaken identity happen. Heck, it not even readable without a translator. Also, the quest isn't that urgent, if that what ya thinking. Hell, the person that ya gave the letter tell ya to lay low and join in the community via Guild or get training from various of people.

Starting out as a Prisoner is awesome. It adds more depth to Roleplaying which is a good thing. :celebration:

Well, no proof other than the intro movie describing the eventual Nerevarine as "a prisoner born on a certain day to uncertain parents was sent under guard, without explanation, to Morrowind," the guards on the vessel described in the Construction Set as "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Imperial_Prison_Ship" constantly referring to the unnamed PC as "prisoner," and so on.

But don't let all these facts bother you, Denial is just a river in Africa.

No denial, just using logic in this. Guards guard the boat and the Player, whoever or whatever s/he is, is just a passenger in the boat. And again, I can easily point out that Jiub could be the Nerevarine that was sent by anyone and the player is mistake for Nerevarine along way.

This is why you amuse me so.

Ya should have been bored by now if that the case. : P

But ya, how do we know ya are not in denial about this whole mess?

whoa! :shocking: it took me a while to read this whole argument :sweat:

Because there are links to evidence that supports my argument, unlike someone else whose response boils down to "Yeah, but all that proof could be bogus, they could all be mistaken."

You got any links to claims that "a prisoner" doesn't mean "a prisoner," aside from links to your own posts? Yeah, didn't think so.

But to a point where that is all ya base, not considering of all things, that is a Imperial Prison Ship, but not to point where the hero of Morrowind is really a "prisoner" but anybody and anybody one can be.

And for my point, I don't need link to prove it that it is not prison intro for Morrowind simply base on logic. The player is not bound (and there slave bracer everywhere), everyone is meh or happy when the player get citizenship, and there no atmosphere that one would think that I was really in a "prison" ship as its just a ship. There no hard cored indication that the Player was a prisoner in the past and and everyone in newb town greet ya like a immigrant rather than a "prisoner".

And from what I read from ya commit, I take it ya do not have the mindset to even think anything beyond that and just follow the carrot that is on front of ya and requires pointless link just to try to prove a point that one is force a certain RP standpoint.

*skips about four pages* Wow this thread's "debate" got annoying real fast.

My two cents? I really don't care as long as I'm not forced through another long dungeon tutorial.


Other than, you know...

1) it was explicitly stated in-game that it was a prison ship
2) Jiub saying "I'm sure they'll let us go"
3) the guards' snippy attitudes towards you when leading you off of the ship
4) you're given release papers

Did you listen at all? Or have you never actually played Morrowind?

here we go again! im going to do one of ya interests Qawsed Asap, sleep! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxy9ZO1yu0U

Play it a bunch of time, usually for testing mods. I keep forgetting to get alternate start mod but it short enough to to right to testing any mods I come across. I can easily say Jiub was wondering when we are leaving, that one guard have a bad day, and I can easily see the release papers as citizenship to Vvardenfell. Prison Ship is still a ship, a form of transportation.



Meh, I can do this all night.