You will start as a prisoner in Skyrim : V - Skyrim

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:29 am

Pretty much the prisoner of the Main Quest is the "tradition" of the series and I have no problem with that, but usually the problem here is that people assume "prisoner" == Jail which lead to Jail == "Tradition". Also, I can argue that one does not start out as a prisoner in Morrowind. Copy and paste again:

But that's the problem you do have a problem with that, you say it is unoriginal and doesn't make for a great RP experience. Also, there is no disputing the character at the beginning of Morrowind is a prisoner. Regardless if Jiub "might" have been the intended messenger, your still a prisoner that was on a prison ship.

The tradition is the prisoner of being part of the Main Quest. People usually think that the tradition is being stuck in jail, which only happen in Oblivion. The Village example is a horrible example seeing that one is already placing hardcoe background to the PC.

No, it's an example of the problem with starting out in the world because you will have ties to the world around you limiting the characters RP.

Ya and assuming that the prisoner did not KILL Picard or that the prisoner just so happens that he have the ammy and gave it to a Blade Member, believing every word the prisoner said. "Right". Too many plot hole in the beginning of Oblivion already.

It's not like Baurus walked up and saw you holding the amulet and said "Ah so the world is in danger, that's cool brah!" He walks up to you and you explain what happened and he is skeptical at first but he believes you because of all the strange happenings that has happened to the septim line. Then when you take the amulet to Jauffre, he is on the edge of killing you demanding you explain yourself when you show him the amulet. They don't up and believe you for no reason.

That said, the lottery thing make perfect sense (like finding money on the ground in real life) that it all lead ya to the Main Quest if one wanted to started that way, like how the "realistic" the prison intro was. All luck and destiny crap if ya want to see it that way.

The lottery thing is NOT realistic and still makes no sense that an escape route would be in a hotel or why someone who just won the lottery and is rich would follow the emperor into a passage and risk his life for no reason. When he has a cushy hotel room to sit in.

Or the Mythic Dawn svck at finding an ammy in a dungeon and the Player beat the Mythic Dawn to the race of finding it or it goes to either that one found a near dead Blade member and he handed the ammy to ya or we can go with Kvatch again with this intro and the Mystic Dawn already got the ammy.

This is impossible also. Baurus survives, he would've picked up the amulet and taken it to Jauffre himself for safe keeping.

Being a prisoner in jail already screw up a handful of build and background already, which lead to a whole lot of crap to build that make it a reason why one is there. It might work for ya, but not everyone like being a felon in the beginning of the game and I prefer an open that anyone can be whoever they are but at the same time, with dignity.

How did it ruin any RPing? You have no idea why your in prison. You could be in prison because of any reason, it doesn't make you a felon seeing as how in a medieval setting you wouldn't be a "felon". Amazingly enough people didn't brand other people for being imprisoned before as harshly as they do today, if at all because who is going to know you unless your some famous mass murderer which obviously your not. I will reiterate, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHY YOUR IN PRISON SO YOU COULD BE AN INNOCENT MAN PUT IN JAIL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PAY TAXES FOR ALL YOU KNOW!!!!

Problem is, the TES Series base on the Main Quest Story and the player is a nobody that just happen to be part of it. THe story is only known with the Main Quest and the nobody can be anyone.

Also, I could say that starting in a prison is random as well, but in a degraded state compare to the other intro.

It's not random, it was predetermined by the divines or another divine power. It actually makes sense unlike a magic lottery ticket that happens to put you in a high class hotel that also happens to have a secret escape passage in a heavily populated building in the best room of the hotel.

I am not being about original. I am about having the idea of giving an intro that anyone can have without being consider a felon. If one can think hard enough, starting anywhere can start the MAin Quest.

In the end, it just sound like ya do not like the change of a Jail intro to something more open for everyone can have and using "tradition" thinking it would back ya up in ya favor.

Being in jail doesn't make you a felon or criminal. It's your decision of what the reason your in prison. I tend to envision that I am a refugee passing into Cyrodiil and was arrested on mistaken identity of another person that committed a crime. It's YOUR decision on why your in there while with the another beginning, your back story is already predetermined for you which already cut out one aspect of character customization. Like the story I made up off the top of my head using being a prisoner as a focal point, it was coherent and allows you to be able to easily transition into the main quest line with a purpose. Being a prisoner can also be that your a slave or a dissident that spoke out against the government and so on and so forth. Just make one beginning story without using being a prisoner as the starting point and make it realistic, coherent and transition into the main quest line easily.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:32 am

I say we just wait and see how the 'prisoner' thing turns out before we keep on arguing. Besides, what people don't usually like about Bethesda's games, they just end up modding it. Hell, it's what I did when Fallout 3 churned up Operation Anchorage and I didn't like the superblue artmosphere; I simply got the CS and learned how to mod. Instead of making a big argument over how the sky there was horrendous (not to mention the green-tinted Uglyland in the main game), I acknowledged the fact that I could change it with the modding tools Bethesda released to the public - knowing that their original version of the game wasn't going to please everyone. And there I had it; blue skies in the Wasteland, and a sky in Anchorage that actually looked like a winter day.

As far as I know, a significant portion of the community seems fine with the prison intro (if I'm wrong, someone tell me otherwise.), and I'm going to assume that Bethesda knows much better than to not release any modding tools for Skyrim.

A realistic event I would expect: Beth just use the "Jail" intro again and I resort to modding it.

I am arguing hoping that the dev reads it and offer a different intro, the fact that "tradition" isn't "tradition" at all, and/or namely expressing my feeling toward this issue.

As far as I am aware, I bet that those who are "fine with the prison intro" did not play any of the previous game that is not Oblivion. Worth mentioning someone wanted to have that child intro like that of Fallout 3 as well and made a topic with that.

How is starting in a prison random?
the day someone breaks free out of prison and get's there life back sounds pretty significant to me. Waking up some day waking up in an Inn and then you're on your own? Pretty Random.

Being in the Prison itself can already be seen "random". It doesn't matter what happen with breaking out or what not. And what make ya think something might not happen if one get out of the Inn? Maybe seeing a dragon flying overhead in the town and everyone is like "what the hell was that?"

using incorrect grammar tends to give others a reason to not take your posts seriously. Just sayin'.

Its my typing style and I don't really care if ya take my post seriously or not. Just saying.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:13 am

A realistic event I would expect: Beth just use the "Jail" intro again and I resort to modding it.

I am arguing hoping that the dev reads it and offer a different intro, the fact that "tradition" isn't "tradition" at all, and/or namely expressing my feeling toward this issue.

As far as I am aware, I bet that those who are "fine with the prison intro" did not play any of the previous game that is not Oblivion.

Obviously you didn't play any games before Oblivion. Seeing as how all the main TES games except for Daggerfall, you were a prisoner I would say that is tradition seeing as how tradition is "a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices." I mean I don't know how I can be much clearer that even Oblivion wasn't the only game you were in an actual prison. Arena had the exact same start place as Oblivion. The only difference in the two games is one game you use teleporters to get around and the other is you are following the emperor into a secret escape route.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:23 pm

As far as I am aware, I bet that those who are "fine with the prison intro" did not play any of the previous game that is not Oblivion. Worth mentioning someone wanted to have that child intro like that of Fallout 3 as well and made a topic with that.

I've played all of the Elder Scrolls games, and I am perfectly content with the prison beginning :shrug:

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:20 am

Well in that case, drunk and disorderly. when in Rome...

Still i like Fallout 3 intro more, though it was a bit too long for comfort :shrug:

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:42 am

Being in the Prison itself can already be seen "random". It doesn't matter what happen with breaking out or what not. And what make ya think something might not happen if one get out of the Inn? Maybe seeing a dragon flying overhead in the town and everyone is like "what the hell was that?"

but starting in an Inn doesn't have the same impact on the player as starting as a prisoner. When I start as a prisoner I'm filled with questions. Why am I in here? What did I do wrong? What is happening? It draws the Player in, making them want to learn more

if I wake up in an Inn I think "err, good morning? random Inn... okay then?"

Just simply isn't as good as an intro in my opinion

Its my typing style and I don't really care if ya take my post seriously or not. Just saying.

Well I hope you don't type school papers/ work documents like that or you wont be passing/ employed for very long. Just sayin'.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:25 pm

But that's the problem you do have a problem with that, you say it is unoriginal and doesn't make for a great RP experience. Also, there is no disputing the character at the beginning of Morrowind is a prisoner. Regardless if Jiub "might" have been the intended messenger, your still a prisoner that was on a prison ship.

And again, its nothing to do with being "original" but where to start out. Way I see it, being in Jail would mess the background up and I don't like the "framed" bull crap to back up the prison intro. As for the Morrowind part, one can roleplay that s/he wanted a fresh start but the prison boat is the only boat there is. Ya either sneak in it, buy a fare, or just ask. Get creative then just assume one is a prisoner. Then there the other roleplay that one is a secret Agent and the prison boat can keep a low profile

No, it's an example of the problem with starting out in the world because you will have ties to the world around you limiting the characters RP.

Which is not how the TES series is usually is. One imply too much to "connect" the player to the world and bingo, forceful backstory is create, thus limiting the characters RP.

It's not like Baurus walked up and saw you holding the amulet and said "Ah so the world is in danger, that's cool brah!" He walks up to you and you explain what happened and he is skeptical at first but he believes you because of all the strange happenings that has happened to the septim line. Then when you take the amulet to Jauffre, he is on the edge of killing you demanding you explain yourself when you show him the amulet. They don't up and believe you for no reason.

And yet, that is quite hard to believe. This also lead to the fact that Baurus should have kept the ammy and tell the prisoner to get out. This is the most logical solution but Baurus assume way to much that the prisoner is going to follow his calling and assume that the player was not kill by the Mystic Dawn or is a member of one. Too much faith and too much assumption there. Then we go to assume that Jauffre "believe" the story ya tell.

The lottery thing is NOT realistic and still makes no sense that an escape route would be in a hotel or why someone who just won the lottery and is rich would follow the emperor into a passage and risk his life for no reason. When he has a cushy hotel room to sit in.

Same with the whole prison theme than if the inn example I gave does not make sense to ya. Then the Prison with the secret door isn't realistic at all. And like I say before, lottery can be a plot thing for destiny, just like the ammy.

This is impossible also. Baurus survives, he would've picked up the amulet and taken it to Jauffre himself for safe keeping.

In the intro I say, maybe Baurus wasn't with Picard at that time or maybe, he the dead soldier himself.

Being in jail doesn't make you a felon or criminal. It's your decision of what the reason your in prison. I tend to envision that I am a refugee passing into Cyrodiil and was arrested on mistaken identity of another person that committed a crime. It's YOUR decision on why your in there while with the another beginning, your back story is already predetermined for you which already cut out one aspect of character customization. Like the story I made up off the top of my head using being a prisoner as a focal point, it was coherent and allows you to be able to easily transition into the main quest line with a purpose. Being a prisoner can also be that your a slave or a dissident that spoke out against the government and so on and so forth. Just make one beginning story without using being a prisoner as the starting point and make it realistic, coherent and transition into the main quest line easily.

The mentality exist because one was in jail. No matter how much bull crap one have to comeup why s/he there, ya was once a felon and one was in a jail in the beginning. That the Main Point.

If its all for being slave to the Main quest, it can happen to anyone and it does not have to start with one being in Jail. Problem I see from ya is that ya do not want change from a jail and willing to defend it, like right now.

Obviously you didn't play any games before Oblivion. Seeing as how all the main TES games except for Daggerfall, you were a prisoner I would say that is tradition seeing as how tradition is "a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practices." I mean I don't know how I can be much clearer that even Oblivion wasn't the only game you were in an actual prison. Arena had the exact same start place as Oblivion. The only difference in the two games is one game you use teleporters to get around and the other is you are following the emperor into a secret escape route.

I play Arena and all I see is just a Goblin infected dungeon, left there to be dead. Not a prison/jail intro to me. Morrowind, look at my logic for that. Then there Redguard and Battlespire, fighting pirate and demon in the beginning respectably. I play and read up the lore and I was deep in the mod community looking at it as meshes, texture, and texts.

I've played all of the Elder Scrolls games, and I am perfectly content with the prison beginning :shrug:

Anyone opinion, I am just expressing my and take in assumption with a few exception.

but starting in an Inn doesn't have the same impact on the player as starting as a prisoner. When I start as a prisoner I'm filled with questions. Why am I in here? What did I do wrong? What is happening? It draws the Player in, making them want to learn more

if I wake up in an Inn I think "err, good morning? random Inn... okay then?"

Just simply isn't as good as an intro in my opinion.

And being in a Jail Cell is degrading and ruin my background toon from being a goodie two shoe to a wandering adventure. Wide and open leave me with me creating my own past and my future and how I chose to be part of the main quest. My opinion, of course.

Well I hope you don't type school papers/ work documents like that or you wont be passing/ employed for very long. Just sayin'.

And I don't. I am not that stupid to transfer game life and school life like that. Just saying.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:25 pm

And being in a Jail Cell is degrading and ruin my background toon from being a goodie two shoe to a wandering adventure. Wide and open leave me with me creating my own past and my future. My opinion, of course.

Oh of course, because the justice system has never ever made a mistake and so since Mr. Goody Twoshoes is in jail he must be pure evil.
furthermore, you could be a prisoner of war, captured as you traveled adventuring. It hasn't been specified what kind of prisoner you are. How does this affect your morality at all?

And I don't. I am not that stupid to transfer game life and school life like that. Just saying.

Could've fooled me by the way you articulate yourself. Just sayin'.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:20 am

Oh of course, because the justice system has never ever made a mistake and so since Mr. Goody Twoshoes is in jail he must be pure evil.
furthermore, you could be a prisoner of war, captured as you traveled adventuring. It hasn't been specified what kind of prisoner you are. How does this affect your morality at all?

There isn't any specified what kind of prisoner they are saying here but people assume that it mean jail. Also, my toon tend to not get caught with the law and know what to do, hence why it would not make sense to put them in the prison intro.

Could've fooled me by the way you articulate yourself. Just sayin'.

I fool'd many people here during my time here in this forum. Just saying.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:17 am

you shouldn't click Qawsed's link, just sayin

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:35 am

I'm all for options, and you'll have people who like starting as a prisoner and others who dont. I kinda like the idea, getting a chance to start over. But lets face it. TES main stories themselves have been known to be shakey at best some times. But, would some random guy at the inn suddenly get an urge to go slay some dragons? It would just continue, more rping here, different intro there. I feel that TES needs a starting point, something that ties as many rp possibilities together as possible. And starting in prisson is a good and easy way for things to start out. Sure, it forces you to put that into your story, but its easily worked around.

You could simply have gotten to drunk, and they locked you up so you didn't hurt anyone. That pretty much can fit into any story unless the character is anti-drinking. Then it could be something else. You were speeding on your horse. I just feel they need a way to tie as many rp possabilities together as humanly possible.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:44 am

I just feel they need a way to tie as many rp possabilities together as humanly possible.

And, aside from the ongoing debate, I think prison is a good way to avoid that.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:40 pm

Its my typing style and I don't really care if ya take my post seriously or not. Just saying.

You just said that you're arguing that the devs read your suggestions and offer a different intro, and then say in the same post that you don't care if people take your posts seriously or not. All the while posting over and over again to make your opinion known. Either accept that you will have to type properly in order for people to take your opinions more seriously, or just stop arguing. Hell, even I'm starting to find your constant usage of 'ya' in place of 'you' really annoying. Oh, and for the record, I used to type in pure netspeak; 073rw0rdz liek 7h1s. People told me that I wouldn't be taken seriously unless I started typing properly; I figured that changing a habit to be looked at as a more intelligent person was far easier and more rewarding than being stubborn.

On another note - there really is no arguing with you, is there? I feel like I'm banging my head against a freaking wall made out of reinforced steel, so let me make my own statement clear;

It's. Just. A. Damn. Game.

Hell, you even have it written in your signature, yet clearly you are tearing up the whole entire game over one tiny little damn detail in the game. I've been playing Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall came around; sure, Oblivion irked me with how botched it was, but I decided not to throw a complete crapfest over it and simply enjoy the game for what it was.
Hell, it's not even like coming up with a decent reason for being in jail changes the entire life story of your character; I fail to see why you act like you have sand in your underwear over this, when all it can take in the game and even in real life to end up being framed is that, one day, you looked at a certain stranger the wrong way, and they decided they didn't like you.

Also, my toon tend to not get caught with the law and know what to do, hence why it would not make sense to put them in the prison intro.

Yeah, well let me tell you this; even people who know exactly how to avoid the law can end up getting caught can run into some bad luck; no rule is set in stone - like the fact that despite knowing how to drive well and following said knowledge, I still managed end to up in an accident last year. The world is unpredictable, and you'd have to be God to be able to account for every single possibility.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:36 am

And again, its nothing to do with being "original" but where to start out. Way I see it, being in Jail would mess the background up and I don't like the "framed" bull crap to back up the prison intro. As for the Morrowind part, one can roleplay that s/he wanted a fresh start but the prison boat is the only boat there is. Ya either sneak in it, buy a fare, or just ask. Get creative then just assume one is a prisoner. Then there the other roleplay that one is a secret Agent and the prison boat can keep a low profile

Originality for the beginning is the biggest part. If it is original and good, great, you just nailed the beginning of the game. Also, you just proved my point. In Morrowind you are a prisoner and yet you imagined a whole, elaborate backstory for your character. Check and match. Thanks for making my case for me.

Which is not how the TES series is usually is. One imply too much to "connect" the player to the world and bingo, forceful backstory is create, thus limiting the characters RP.

And yet, that is quite hard to believe. This also lead to the fact that Baurus should have kept the ammy and tell the prisoner to get out. This is the most logical solution but Baurus assume way to much that the prisoner is going to follow his calling and assume that the player was not kill by the Mystic Dawn or is a member of one. Too much faith and too much assumption there. Then we go to assume that Jauffre "believe" the story ya tell.

How is it not believable? Baurus and all of the Blades put their faith in the Emperors. You can see this as evident when Martin doesn't know what he is doing and makes the speech and yet they are all still devoted to him and he even goes out of his way to mention their loyalty. Besides, Baurus had to look after the emperors body and take it back to the surface, he couldn't very well take it seeing as how the Emperor gave you the task to take it to Jauffre. No one is going to say that the emperor isn't trust worthy because he only has divine dragon blood in him that gives him the ability to see what mortals cannot...

Same with the whole prison theme than if the inn example I gave does not make sense to ya. Then the Prison with the secret door isn't realistic at all. And like I say before, lottery can be a plot thing for destiny, just like the ammy.

The prison secret passage makes perfect sense. It's in a secluded part of the imperial prison in a cell that is supposed to be off limits but due to divine intervention, the guards mixed up the cells and put you in the secret passage cell. A five-star hotel is not really a good place to try to slip away out of notice of assassins.

In the intro I say, maybe Baurus wasn't with Picard at that time or maybe, he the dead soldier himself.

Ok, Baurus wasn't there or maybe he was the dead soldier, then the Mythic dawn took the amulet of kings and Tamriel is doomed. Oops, wrong place to start the game.

The mentality exist because one was in jail. No matter how much bull crap one have to comeup why s/he there, ya was once a felon and one was in a jail in the beginning. That the Main Point.

What mentality? There are no "felons" in medieval times/TES. Your in prison for no reason, you can be completely innocent. If you can't handle the fact that your character is in prison and whether or not they are innocent or not in your backstory you thought of, then I would hate to be an ex-con applying for a job if you were a manager. The NPCs in the world don't consider you a felon so you shouldn't either, because the view of the NPCs is what matters as they are part of the world.

If its all for being slave to the Main quest, it can happen to anyone and it does not have to start with one being in Jail. Problem I see from ya is that ya do not want change from a jail and willing to defend it, like right now.

Yes, I'm willing to defend it because it has innumerable paths and stories that can spawn from being a prisoner. You keep saying "jail" when no one is talking about jail, we are talking about being a prisoner. Besides jail is where your held before your trial, prison is where you serve your sentence.

I play Arena and all I see is just a Goblin infected dungeon, left there to be dead. Not a prison/jail intro to me. Morrowind, look at my logic for that. Then there Redguard and Battlespire, fighting pirate and demon in the beginning respectably. I play and read up the lore and I was deep in the mod community looking at it as meshes, texture, and texts.

It's a prison, the same prison you are in, in Oblivion. Confirmation of this is one of the loading screens when your in the imperial prison that states how no one has escaped the imperial prison since the time of Jagar Tharn, aka Arena. Also I said "main" TES games since obviously redguard and battlespire are spinoffs and have different game styles. You are Cyrus in redguard so you can't be your own character and in Battlespire you also can't be your own character because your an Imperial Battlemage in that game.

Anyone opinion, I am just expressing my and take in assumption with a few exception.

Yes, it is anyone's opinion but you state your opinion then denounce starting out as a prisoner as unoriginal and just a generic beginning even though they are all diverse.

And being in a Jail Cell is degrading and ruin my background toon from being a goodie two shoe to a wandering adventure. Wide and open leave me with me creating my own past and my future and how I chose to be part of the main quest. My opinion, of course.

It is degrading, but it doesn't ruin your background as is stated above that you can be a goodie two shoes and still be in prison. Now if someone wants to believe their character was put in jail because they were a serial killer, that works too.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:24 pm

And, aside from the ongoing debate, I think prison is a good way to avoid that.

How'd you do it then? Cause besides birth, death, and taxes, not many people have a lot of things in common. Even fewer rp character people. There's no real way to ask this without sounding like an ars, so don't take it the wrong way. I just want to know.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:05 am

I think you are arguing into the wind Sleign. Prison has not been a theme throughout the games. It was not a prison sentence in MW. Besides, two does not make a theme.
--------

How'd you do it then? Cause besides birth, death, and taxes, not many people have a lot of things in common. Even fewer rp character people. There's no real way to ask this without sounding like an ars, so don't take it the wrong way. I just want to know.

Well, I agree with Qwased that straight-up prison. However, there are plenty of ways and reasons to be officially recognized aside from prison.
Being robbed then sheltered, being a stranger showing up to a small town, being tracked by Blades for whatever reason (as was the case in MW), a bar fight, national census, citation & papers (which you don't have) from a wandering Imperial guard for whatever reason.

Most of these being relatively (especially when compared to prison) unobtrusive to back story.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:52 pm

I think you are arguing into the wind Sleign. Prison has not been a theme throughout the games. It was not a prison sentence in MW. Besides, two does not make a theme.
--------

editing my responce in

You are a prisoner in Arena. This is not debatable. As confirmed even in Oblivion's first loading screen, the PC from Arena did escape from the Imperial prison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_RiReXz8DQ

You are a prisoner in Oblivion. This is not debatable.

It's a tradition.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:13 pm

Hold - a prison or prison cell.
Prisoner - a person who is confined in prison or kept in custody, esp. as the result of legal process.

Arena
Began in the Imperial Prison in a secret cell after being put there by Jagar Thorn

Daggerfall
Start out in a cave called Privateer's Hold (see above references)

Morrowind
The Emperor sent you to Morrowind after realizing you were the Neraverine, you were sent in the custody of Imperial troops on a prison ship.

Oblivion
You wound up being placed in a cell in the Imperial Prison that the Emperor passed through, without this happening you would never have been part of the Oblivion Crisis.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:12 am

Being tracked by the blades? It does never say that you, persay, start in jail. What if they caught you and took you by force, and they're leading you in shackles to their hideout?

I see what your saying though. There are other ways for a character to be found out. And I hate being one of those people that say just because...but, it would feel strange for me to not start in some kind of enprisonment....just because. I'm not sure why, but it just would feel strange.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Being a prisoner in jail already screw up a handful of build and background already, which lead to a whole lot of crap to build that make it a reason why one is there. It might work for ya, but not everyone like being a felon in the beginning of the game and I prefer an open that anyone can be whoever they are but at the same time, with dignity.

You ever hear of Socrates, Thoreau, or Mandela?

Anyway, a few seconds is all it takes to think of plausible reasons to be in prison:

The Mother Theresa (or just plain anybody) build:
One day, the Emperor is doing some light reading through some Elder Scrolls that are laying around, and notices that there have been a lot of portents of doom lately. The Elder Scrolls talk about a certain prisoner's destiny, so the Emperor, feeling impatient, decides to speed things along. He sends out agents to find people who match the profile. He receives a list, and issues orders to jail everyone who's listed. Dozens or hundreds of innocents jailed in a few easy steps.

The Holy Paladin build:
A shiny faced, white-helmeted knight, young and inexperienced, is walking down the street, when he comes across two arguing street vendors. The situation quickly escalates to a fight, perhaps with a number of nearby people joining in. The young paladin steps in to prevent anybody from getting hurt, just as the town guard shows up. The guards, jaded and not wanting to spend time figuring out what happened right there, grab everybody within reach and march them off to jail.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_RiReXz8DQ

under authority of the blades

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:25 pm

You are a prisoner in Arena. This is not debatable. As confirmed even in Oblivion's first loading screen, the PC from Arena did escape from the Imperial prison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_RiReXz8DQ

You are a prisoner in Oblivion. This is not debatable.

It's a tradition.

This.

@ Shnell olfy I and most everyone else never even said that "prison" was a tradition in TES, being a "prisoner" is. When 3 of the 4 main TES games start with you being a prisoner I think it's a tradition. Hell even Daggerfall had you trapped in the ship, though your not a prisoner.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:41 pm

I'm all for options, and you'll have people who like starting as a prisoner and others who dont. I kinda like the idea, getting a chance to start over. But lets face it. TES main stories themselves have been known to be shakey at best some times. But, would some random guy at the inn suddenly get an urge to go slay some dragons? It would just continue, more rping here, different intro there. I feel that TES needs a starting point, something that ties as many rp possibilities together as possible. And starting in prisson is a good and easy way for things to start out. Sure, it forces you to put that into your story, but its easily worked around.

You could simply have gotten to drunk, and they locked you up so you didn't hurt anyone. That pretty much can fit into any story unless the character is anti-drinking. Then it could be something else. You were speeding on your horse. I just feel they need a way to tie as many rp possabilities together as humanly possible.

If one wanted to look at it this way, starting the Main Quest right away cause urgently. My idea is that one start out as a nobody, but working up from there doing alot of quest or working for a company and/or Guild would get one notice to be thrust into the Main Quest rather than starting the Main Quest right in the beginning. That way, one can be intervene with the community right away.

Also, I don't drink and also, I don't like making "framed" as a way to avoid the Jail part, or even have the Jail part for that matter.

You just said that you're arguing that the devs read your suggestions and offer a different intro, and then say in the same post that you don't care if people take your posts seriously or not. All the while posting over and over again to make your opinion known. Either accept that you will have to type properly in order for people to take your opinions more seriously, or just stop arguing. Hell, even I'm starting to find your constant usage of 'ya' in place of 'you' really annoying. Oh, and for the record, I used to type in pure netspeak; 073rw0rdz liek 7h1s. People told me that I wouldn't be taken seriously unless I started typing properly; I figured that changing a habit to be looked at as a more intelligent person was far easier and more rewarding than being stubborn.

I been using ya since I got here and no one really cares, though I find it funny it annoy ya in such a way. That say, I hope the dev read it, I don't really care if ya like my suggestion or not, and if one does not want to argue, then don't join the argument. Simple as that.

On another note - there really is no arguing with you, is there? I feel like I'm banging my head against a freaking wall made out of reinforced steel, so let me make my own statement clear;

It's. Just. A. Damn. Game.

If that how ya see it, then good for ya. But ya, might be just a game, but we are arguning on how it should start.

Hell, you even have it written in your signature, yet clearly you are tearing up the whole entire game over one tiny little damn detail in the game. I've been playing Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall came around; sure, Oblivion irked me with how botched it was, but I decided not to throw a complete crapfest over it and simply enjoy the game for what it was.
Hell, it's not even like coming up with a decent reason for being in jail changes the entire life story of your character; I fail to see why you act like you have sand in your underwear over this, when all it can take in the game and even in real life to end up being framed is that, one day, you looked at a certain stranger the wrong way, and they decided they didn't like you.

My signature is there for any game I play with people. It also exist for irony. Anyways, the jail intro may not change ya toon story but it sure as hell change my to a point I modded it out. This applies for a whole bunch of goodies, but for now, this Jail intro.

Yeah, well let me tell you this; even people who know exactly how to avoid the law can end up getting caught can run into some bad luck; no rule is set in stone - like the fact that despite knowing how to drive well and following said knowledge, I still managed end to up in an accident last year. The world is unpredictable, and you'd have to be God to be able to account for every single possibility.

Life is unpredictable, creating a toon with one imagination isn't.

-reserve for more post-

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:03 am

Originality for the beginning is the biggest part. If it is original and good, great, you just nailed the beginning of the game. Also, you just proved my point. In Morrowind you are a prisoner and yet you imagined a whole, elaborate backstory for your character. Check and match. Thanks for making my case for me.

That not imagined a whole, that just using up what we have. We got off the boat. That is set in stone and that is nota prison cell. How we got there is pretty up to anyone, hence why I gave my logic it into this. Its more that ya not liking it and just blinding of not accepting any alternate.

How is it not believable? Baurus and all of the Blades put their faith in the Emperors. You can see this as evident when Martin doesn't know what he is doing and makes the speech and yet they are all still devoted to him and he even goes out of his way to mention their loyalty. Besides, Baurus had to look after the emperors body and take it back to the surface, he couldn't very well take it seeing as how the Emperor gave you the task to take it to Jauffre. No one is going to say that the emperor isn't trust worthy because he only has divine dragon blood in him that gives him the ability to see what mortals cannot...

Hard to believe in term of the Blade to Prisoner, not to Emperor and Blade. And like I said before, Baurus, by all logic, should have kept the ammy and deliver it for himself than have faith and assume what the Prisoner say is true. I find it hard to believe that Baurus handed in the one item that can end the world to a prisoner.

The prison secret passage makes perfect sense. It's in a secluded part of the imperial prison in a cell that is supposed to be off limits but due to divine intervention, the guards mixed up the cells and put you in the secret passage cell. A five-star hotel is not really a good place to try to slip away out of notice of assassins.

Then it should make perfect sense that an inn that Picard visit regularly should have an escape route as well. Hell, why was Picard in the Prison in the first place.

Ok, Baurus wasn't there or maybe he was the dead soldier, then the Mythic dawn took the amulet of kings and Tamriel is doomed. Oops, wrong place to start the game.

Mythic dawn already took the ammy because the ammy was hidden in the closet at the Blade Headquarter. This is assuming the Mythic dawn cannot find ammy in the first place.

What mentality? There are no "felons" in medieval times/TES. Your in prison for no reason, you can be completely innocent. If you can't handle the fact that your character is in prison and whether or not they are innocent or not in your backstory you thought of, then I would hate to be an ex-con applying for a job if you were a manager. The NPCs in the world don't consider you a felon so you shouldn't either, because the view of the NPCs is what matters as they are part of the world.

The mentality is that the PC is in jail and that is all is matter, innocent or not. That screw up my background and I don't like to make up crap as to why its there. I prefer a clean record.

Yes, I'm willing to defend it because it has innumerable paths and stories that can spawn from being a prisoner. You keep saying "jail" when no one is talking about jail, we are talking about being a prisoner. Besides jail is where your held before your trial, prison is where you serve your sentence

I don't mind that I am a prisoner of the Main Quest but if people assume prisoner == jail/prison cell, then I cannot let this go. Prison Cell and Jail is the term I use interchangeably.

It's a prison, the same prison you are in, in Oblivion. Confirmation of this is one of the loading screens when your in the imperial prison that states how no one has escaped the imperial prison since the time of Jagar Tharn, aka Arena. Also I said "main" TES games since obviously redguard and battlespire are spinoffs and have different game styles. You are Cyrus in redguard so you can't be your own character and in Battlespire you also can't be your own character because your an Imperial Battlemage in that game.

That could be anyone in Arena that went to jail. Remeber, Jagar Tharn went mad with power and causes alot of battles and enemies. Also, I don't consider Oblivion to hold lore of the past that well as it mess things up with a handful of subject. I would consider the spinoff as part of the lore and history of the series, so they are legit.

Yes, it is anyone's opinion but you state your opinion then denounce starting out as a prisoner as unoriginal and just a generic beginning even though they are all diverse.

And ya denounce me and and handful denounce me as well, so its only natural I denounce some as well for my vision.

It is degrading, but it doesn't ruin your background as is stated above that you can be a goodie two shoes and still be in prison. Now if someone wants to believe their character was put in jail because they were a serial killer, that works too.

It ruin my and I modded Oblivion's intro to hell. I like a goodie two shoes with a clean record.

-reserve for more post-

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:35 pm

under authority of the blades

Definition of PRISONER
1: a person deprived of liberty and kept under involuntary restraint, confinement, or custody; especially : one on trial or in prison
2: someone restrained as if in prison

Notice the words "prisoner sent to Morrowind" and "they have taken you from the Imperial City's prison". Also notice that you're on a prison ship with a half-naked, and subsequently clearly imprisoned, Dark Elf named Jiub. Also notice you are being led around by guards, do not have any posessions, and are clearly being forced to do what you are doing against your will. If someone wishes to provide actual evidence of you not being a prisoner, please, by all means, contradict the definition of prisoner and prove me wrong.