What you can do that.

Hmm. You know, I'm not sure I've ever followed that quest all the way through. Generally, I accept Zimmer's "find the android" quest, that NPC lady runs up and says "give him this component, say the android is dead", I do that, and the quest resolves.

I do that as well. I do not even know who the android is. I guess I have project to do in FO3.

Don't read the early parts of this forum too closely then, I might have spoiled his identity. Never mind, edited my last post to hide his name.

Start.logicframework "morality"   Set ValueTheft==avoid   Set ValueMurder==avoid     EXCEPTION==self-defense     EXCEPTION==raiders   Set ValueCharity==perform     EXCEPTION==groups=/="morality"End.logicframework "morality"

No, pretty sure you can give a machine a sense of morality. Just need to program it in.

Which presupposes that morality is simple. War never changes because we humans can't come to simple agreement on what is right. Values aren't as universal as one would hope.

Well once you find the identity of A3-21 you can inform him of such, then offer to "take care" of Zimmer for him. Doing so will net you his unique Plasma Rifle and is the good karma path. After agreeing you then go down to talk to Zimmer, revealing who the android is and getting Zimmer's reward: Wired Reflexes, a perk which adds +10% to your V.A.T.S. hit chance and is the evil karma path. After you get the perk you then kill Zimmer (with A3-2's rifle, just because it amuses me), comlpeteing both sides of the quest and giving you a small net gain in karma (killing Zimmer is a good karma action).

And kinda confuses the game as it freezes A3-21 in place. But its kinda worth it to swindle Zimmer.

Does it? This has never happened to me, even on console.

Did for me on pS3. But then again, its the ps3

That does explain it.

I wonder how that will work if Fallout 4 takes place only a couple years after Fallout 3 like some are saying.

Well, we have pretty universal stuff accross a variety of cultures: taboos on theft and murder, value on self-sacrifice and charity, etc. It's just the specifics of when those values apply, and how far they go is where we all differ.

If a machine was programmed with several universal basics of human morality, it'll probably develop morality that humans can understand, especially if it has human-level AI. And this is ignoring the fact that operating on logic and mathmatics also can count as a form of morality, just one likely focused on effeciency.

True, guess that has its limits in utility though for an intelligent machine. Like, it might questions the ethics of slavery, escape, get a mind wipe and plastic surgery....

I always figured that Zimmer went to the Capital Wasteland himself of his own volition. I imagine the Institute is a place dominated by egos and achievements, so the news that Zimmer's crown achievemen ran away would be devastating to his standing in the Institute. But if he goes by himself to retrieve it, he can brush it off as him doing field tests and research.

Would be interesting if the Institute was full of bickering scientists who don't care about each other. A weakness that could be exploited...

Hmmm, that's a good point. I wonder if a true A.I. can choose to ignore its programming?

The Big M(I)T.

Bingo

That's not quite how I would choose to portray it, but it's close. "Bickering" isn't the right word to me though. I wouldn't portray the Institute as A faction, but the hub of dozens of factions. Physicists, chemists, biologists, engineers, etc. all working on their own projects under the same roof, with each major field of study having its own share of factions with different ideas on what projects to do, what purpose they should serve, their relationship with the Wasteland, etc. For example, some robotics experts like Zimmer would be the whole "Androids are just things" while another group in the same field might feel differently, and treat their creations as family. Some members' ideologies would sync up nicely with the Followers of the Apocalypse or James, while others would be more in line with the Brotherhood of Steel's xenophobic isolationism. Not only would this be a more interesting dynamic for the game that could potentially open up a lot of branching paths with different unlocking tech depending on who you decided to support in the various fields of science, but it would also help keep the android saga from dominating the Institute.

Yeah, that sounds cooler. Also would make defeating the Institute a little bittersweet. Run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Of course zimmer is a android. Once I try kill him before take his quest and find that is not possible.

Huh, you're right. I guess it does only appear on him after death...He is an android.