FYI, extra XP allows people to do world firsts before everyone else. So its a major game advantage.

I am really disappointed about this little P2W gem.

OP is kind of reaching on the giant flesh atronach being so giant.

Mara rings are just like any other exp potion that comes in a CE/pre-order pack. Hell my characters in Rift STILL get theirs whenever I roll one up.

Mounts are basic pre-order digital rewards. Its a digital reward. What else can they really cram in there?

Pet is see above, same as mount.

Race is a whole new beast, and while I personally don't mind it one bit, I can't really defend it. I will say however that if I wasn't buying a CE (I am), I would be fine upgrading to the non-standard edition at a later date for a few bucks (similar to, yet again, how you can in every other [censored] game).

Do we have:

1) Evidence that there are "World First" achievements recognized in the game?
2) Evidence that being the first in the world to achieve something will offer anyone a substantive advantage over other players?

You have never really played MMORPGs have you? World Firsts and bragging rights are a HUGE subculture in MMORPGs.

They're a tiny subculture, even in WoW, where people thrive on measuring contests. A very small group of people place importance on claiming "world first", regardless of whether there are any official systems to verify the achievement. It has no effect on the vast majority of players, who could not care less about whether they are the first or the 1000th player to experience content.

A huge subculture that only thrives on the existence of achievements reflecting the world firsts.

Of which there might or might not be any.

I think Im still a bit fuzzy on the situation since the previous thread I was reading was locked.

Let me get this straight:

They said, initially, that we could play any faction or race? And now, they are saying that a previously unplayable faction in Imperials are going to be only available if you pre order the imperial addition,Im assuming it costs more than regular?

Well, I must ask...What advantages does Imperial have over anyone else?

If nothing, then this is not a pay 2 win scenario in my mind. But, it is kind of crummy of ZOS. As someone who is on the fence about buying the game or not, simple behavior from ZOS like this would suade me not to purchase as a precautionary measure. I'd wait for the release of Wildstar instead.

But, to anyone thinking this is pay 2 win..so long as imperials do not increase stats in any way, it is not pay to win.

Playing an Imperial will not grant you any significant advantages over any other race. Racial skill lines all offer unique bonuses, and there's no indication that the Imperials will have some kind of "super-set" of racial skills to make them better than other players. They will simply be a 10th choice.

Getting extra XP and possibly getting a mount with increased speed are definitely major in-game advantages. You can White Knight it as much as you want, the truth remains that theses are P2W features, which is something that ZOS said they would not do and it has no place in subscription games.

Edit: With the extra XP you can also do Adventure Zones before anyone else and get into top "raiding" guilds. Thats definitely another major advantage.

One thing I am noticing reading this thread is that people are talking about XP bonus gains, etc...things that belong in a microtransaction cash shop. Things that are pertinent to a free to play game that needs money to support itself. Not a subscription based game.

What nerve developers have these days to ask for more $$ for bonuses and perks, and a sub. Why bother playing your games? Theres so many alternatives out there just as good that won't do that to you.

Getting extra XP when you play with one specific friend means that you may hit 50 a little faster. If you would care to explain how this gives you a significant advantage over other players in a way that impacts their experience, feel free to do so. We have zero indication that the mount will be faster than other mounts, since the description just seems to be badly worded.

I have really problems when it comes to deciding what to think about it now.

Considering what Zenimax have been saying before , and what they presented with this ...

On a ironic side of things, people complained about lack of Imperials and no Cross-fraction and now we have it.

Anyway but move Zenimax , bad move, I don't know how can they get out of this.

#1 is pretty irrelevant. Back when I actively played WoW there weren't any achievements in the game. Yet there were achievements in the game.

Everyone on my server knew who the first person to ever hit the max level was, everyone knew the fasters levelers, hardcoe grinders, best PvPers, etc. And yes it's a big deal to some people, though perhaps not to you.

I don't think that special advantages are the problem , I was okay and supportive of all decision that Zenimax made but even to me this strike a wrong chorde . The problem is that they said it there will be no paygates to content , but in order to play as Imperial you need to pay more . The solution to that would be having Imperials avaiable in some way in other edition but that could implie that there is a cashshop something that Zenimax ,again said wouldn't be present in ESO

The fact that unofficial achievements are a big deal to "some people" has no bearing on this. If it's that big a deal, and if they believe that it will be affected by getting the Imperial Edition, surely those people will shell out an extra $20 for it.

The vast majority of players do not care. And yes, I played WoW for years. I recall occasionally seeing a player or guild name pop up in reference to being "world-first" or very skilled, but most of the other people who played for fun (yes, people still do that) did not take any special note.

There shouldn't be.

And if there is, that's stupid. They're just WoWifing the game down. Its horrendous.

Based on reading this, im not very happy about either. Only slightly not happy about the "play as any faction with any race" thing. I think this fixes the wierd faction set ups we have (especially nord/dunmer/argonian as they are sworn enemies even before the time this game takes place), but it does hurt faction pride. It makes actual factions a little useless. Factions already got hurt when they added cross-faction guilds and when they didnt add world pvp outside of cyrodil. This game has sounded so much like a pvp game about a war. But now it feels like there is no war between different nations, and just a war between people that decided to get together (similar ideas, but one is underwhelming). I can see how this does increase freedom, but i think it hurts the feeling of an actual war going on. I hated the fact that a nord could join the imperials and imperials join the stormcloaks in skyrim. Im just that type of person though.

What i am most pissed about is buying the imperial faction. For me everything in the imperial edition is useless except for the imperial faction, so i am supposed to preorder the regular game and pay $20 for another faction. Since Imperial is my favorite faction, its as if i have to pay $20. First of all i hate preording. I learned my lesson from preordering Rome 2 TW, preordering skyrim, and preordering Empire TW. Preordering svcks, especially when paying more than the launch day game price or when the launch is messed up. Second of all, this game has a sub, so everythign that affects the way you play should be included. Only way imperial could possibly not be included is if it was purely cosmetic (but its not as it has different gear and crafting and possibly racial passives or abilities).